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Apr 24, 2022

Chris and Jonathan welcome back to the show Paul Ingraham, the founder of He charts his early days as a woo believer, his transformation into a skeptic, and the thing that got him in trouble with his massage therapy regulatory body: tone. Do healthcare regulators care for snark? Is it their role to tone-police their members? The Internet took many regulators by surprise and some overreacted. How do you kick the foxes out of the henhouse of massage therapy if the rule is that foxes should be treated as hens?


No time stamps for this one. It’s a story that goes from “crack” addiction to growing out of the adolescent phase of skepticism to the difference between evidence-based medicine and science-based medicine. And for the first time ever, our podcast has been turned all the way up to 11.



* Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl.


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1) Paul Ingraham’s website:

2) Paul Ingraham’s Science-Based Medicine post on why he quit being a massage therapist: